I was also aware of this book by Schaff but it was way down my list of resources to check out because I knew Schaff was one of those in favor of the 1881 revision, a position I figure I've heard enough of to last me a couple more lifetimes. However, this list IS very interesting to think about, and I have a prior positive acquaintance with Schaff I'd like to mention too, through his History of the Christian Church which is a great read to take in small bites from the linked online copy at CCEL. I don't have to agree with him to appreciate some of his work.
DiVietro quotes Schaff:
It may well be said, without the least disparagement of the merits of the Revising Committees, that the great majority of the changes of text and version (probably more than four fifths) which they finally adopted had been anticipated by previous translators and commentators, and had become the common property of biblical scholars before the year 1870. But these improvements were scattered among many books, and lacked public recognition. They had literary worth, but no ecclesiastical authority. They were the work of individuals, not of the Church. (p 368)
Interestingly I was just on a debate forum where Schaff's estimate of the number of changes made by the Revised Version was mentioned as extremely small compared to other estimates, "by half," the number 36,000 showing up enough to be recognized as the true number. (See Comments; apparently I misremembered this). It would be a huge undertaking but it would be great to know just how many of the changes in these pre-Westcott-and-Hort revisions really did have "literary worth," were really "improvements." I don't doubt that some were.
That so many had felt a need to update and/or correct the KJV for such a long period before the revision of 1881 was commissioned to my mind reflects exactly my own state of mind NOW. I wish there WERE a good revision of the KJV, a really GOOD one. (Maybe it exists but the task of finding it would be overwhelming, certainly impossible for me). I also wish of course that it would be taken up by some sort of authoritative body -- of a majority of the orthodox Bible-believing churches, and become the new Standard, ousting all the modern pretenders. Surely I'm allowed such an unrealistic wish since it would obviously be the ideal situation, whereas all these lone-wolf attempts at revision are of no value to the church at all.So I would like to know a lot more about all those pre-Revised Version attempts -- an assessment of how many changes were made in different versions and of what kind and how much they tried to preserve the feel of the KJV, and of course a good sample of the changes.
I also have the question how much of this clamor for revision might have been prompted by the burgeoning rationalism of the day, the influence of the liberal German Tubingen school of textual criticism, Deism and so on because it could be that some fair proportion were influenced from that direction (some followed Tischendorf for instance) just as the revision of 1881 itself is said to have been. Yet I doubt that was the only or even the majority influence. Still, this trend was a reality during that period, Burgon being one who fought it on many fronts, and it is a problem that still needs to be dealt with.
It would be great to see all that taken into account by a NEW revising committee with the ecclesiastical authority I so unrealistically wish for, a revising committee that rejects the Alexandrian texts as corrupted and rejects all the modern versions based on the critical texts that incorporate the Alexandrians, and appreciates Burgon's assessment of both Greek and English grammar and idiom. My Dream Team Translation Committee that probably can't exist.
Hi Folks,
ReplyDelete36,000 actually was an estimate that Schaaf gave in his book.
A companion to the Greek Testament and the English version By Philip Schaff
http://books.google.com/books?id=t_wWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA418
He explains how he got the figure from a Guardian correspondent.
Not that such figures mean much, the BVDB forum was going a bit bananas on the topic, so I figger it is good to see the actual source, and that it was given by Philip Schaaf.
Shalom,
Steven Avery
Thanks for the correction, Steven, I got that garbled up.
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteThe KJV-Only web site is down, so I do not know the Erik-Schaaf specific references.
The revision attempts were wide, some rather sincere, many rather motley.
Hugh Broughton, Hebracist who was not placed on the translation commitees, wanted AV revision or rejection immediately. Probably the most important clamor was around 1650, with an act passed by the long parliament. Even John Owen was part of that group. Daniel Mace's 1720 eclectic translation had very mixed reviews, then and now. There were some baptists in the 1800s that really wanted to change the word baptism to immersion (rather ironic, and a bit unscholarly). The Unitarian "Improved Version" of the early 1800s made a bit of a splash. And the ABS tried a pseudo-update in the mid 1800s which edition raised a clamor.
The big issue is the rebellion against the Received Text, and the history including Lachman, Griesbach, Tregelles, Alford, Tischendorf through Westcott and Hort. And the revisionists who were finagled and controlled by Hort (friend of occultist/mesmerist Augsustus de Morgan, 1806-1871).
In terms of Bible revisions, this last group is more fundamentally textual than the earlier ones, that tended to be more translational. And generally each one of anti-Reformation Bible scholars is wildly different from the others (with Tischendorf being wildly different even from himself).
Probably the best discussion of this history could be had on one of three venues.
Bibleprotectors KJB-PCE forum, as he is very astute on the revision attempt history. TC-Alternate, yahoogroups, quite an eclectic forum without the edge and censorship that exists in the forums you are currently frequenting. And Which Version, a yahoogroups discussion forum that is run by AV defenders yet is very fair even to those with critical text views (who are not ranting).
Incidentally, if you can find the post I sent in discussing Frederick Nolan and George Salmon (did it get lost in Blogger land ?) I think you will find those discussions fascinating.
Shalom,
Steven Avery